[Joseph]

Howdy.

I have just started my weight training program with an eye toward sprint events.

I have read (and reread) several threads here about different programs, and I think I have a pretty good handle on what exercises to do, and how many, etc.

A new gym opened only a 15 minute spin from my house, and much like YahikoKeirin and his gym (not the heavy objects!) I seem to have the weight section to myself, and most of the cable machines too. It is pretty crowded over by the elliptical trainers and other torture devices, however.

I have never lifted before, and most advice I get (from people at the gym, etc) suggests starting out very cautiously and adding 5kg at a time, etc. Seems like they are more worried about me blowing a gasket than figuring out what I should be doing.

One exercise is the seated leg press on a cable machine. Bending to a bit past 90 degrees, I quickly worked my way up to 190kg after trying a few lesser weights (the lady at the gym suggested I start at 40kg!!! WTF?) and did 3 sets of 10 reps without much effort (could have done many more reps). Should I do these one-legged instead, or just forget about that machine? Is this why people do free weights instead?

So I am balancing all the scare messages I've been given with trying to figure out what sort of weights I should be using.

I also noticed that my muscles quite visibly quiver and stutter in a way during the eccentric contraction portion. Is that normal? Is that something that will go away as my muscles learn how to lift? Nobody there appeared knowledgeable enough for me to bother asking.

Joseph

[Allan_L]

Keep it simple..

Squat, single leg leg press, deadlifts

control should be the name of the game 3x10 reps or so

I have been doing 'ass to grass' squats like totally bottoming out, but i find i lose a bit of control in the bottom so ill stick to top of the thigh parallel. Thats what staff and hoy do.

[sbrown]

If you really want to get serious, find a power lifting coach and learn how to squat, dead lift and do power cleans. You need to develop as much power in the gym off season as you can and always fine tune the program later. Coordinate your lifting via periodization with your racing season. Anything else is playing around for fun.

[Jonnycerious]

Allan_L •wrote• Keep it simple..

Squat, single leg leg press, deadlifts

control should be the name of the game 3x10 reps or so

I have been doing 'ass to grass' squats like totally bottoming out, but i find i lose a bit of control in the bottom so ill stick to top of the thigh parallel. Thats what staff and hoy do.

simple is right but do this:
workout 1
full squat
staight leg dead lift
flat bench
tbar row
hanging leg raise(bring them to your face without swinging!)
weighted decline crunch

workout2
single leg squat(Bulgarian)
dead lift
cable single leg knee raise
single leg curl
incline bench
weighted pullup
weighted decline crunch
oblique twist

for max strength train each workout once a week. Week 1 3x3 week 2 4x2 week 3 5x1 and repeat. Warm up sets dont count toward the 3x3 its to be done at your max so the lifts and sets prior and are not included and would be in addition to. This a max strength program not a power program and twice a week will allow some good recovery and other sprint/endurance workouts.

Train your sprint with max strength and then train power(explosive movements) with faster reps in 6-10 range but that is after this phase. Speed and strength first.

[Joseph]

Thanks for the excellent advice guys. I like the KIS approach, just in general, and also since I am a beginner basically anything is going to help. The improvement curve is steep from where I'm at.

I sprained my sternum last year, and it still isn't 100%, so I am a bit wary of upper body stuff, but squat and deadlifts feel fine. Bench and stuff like that is out for now.

Phase one is as suggested strength and technique. Later speed and power.

Coming from the road, I am used to the idea of resistance training being an off-season only thing. But I suppose I should just keep going, right? I am going to be doing a whole bunch of road racing once spring rolls around, but my targeted event for kilo is in August. So more or less how should I break down those 9 months I have in terms of strength vs power/speed, etc.

Joseph

[Billsworld]

Hi Joseph, It sounds like you are on your own in that gym as far as coaching goes. I would look over the "Gym coach wanted" thread and make sure you are doing your squats and deadlifts correctly. Looking at a video of someone doing a lift and duplicating it is not always an easy link. For now ,your form in those lifts will be more important than any routine .

[sbrown]

At the risk of creating a real controversy, and maybe just as a balm against already being confined to the rollers in the basement and the gym I will suggest the following. Do you want to be a kilo rider or just ride a kilo? If you spend all your time in the spring on road rides, when are you going to train for a kilo? If you are going to do some gym work and do a bunch of endurance stuff, you may have slightly better kilo due to general fitness. But you will not really be training for a kilo. I know we will both hear a lot from other riders who will praise all their road training and endurance work. They will offer up all sorts of success stories and jerseys. But either you are training for a kilo or not. That is not meant to discourage you. Have a much fun as possible. Ride all the events you can. The more you ride, the more you learn and the better you get.

[HotBlack]

sbrown •wrote• At the risk of creating a real controversy, and maybe just as a balm against already being confined to the rollers in the basement and the gym I will suggest the following. Do you want to be a kilo rider or just ride a kilo? If you spend all your time in the spring on road rides, when are you going to train for a kilo? If you are going to do some gym work and do a bunch of endurance stuff, you may have slightly better kilo due to general fitness. But you will not really be training for a kilo. I know we will both hear a lot from other riders who will praise all their road training and endurance work. They will offer up all sorts of success stories and jerseys. But either you are training for a kilo or not. That is not meant to discourage you. Have a much fun as possible. Ride all the events you can. The more you ride, the more you learn and the better you get.

There is some good information, and some good rhetorical questions in this post.

Therefore interested parties should read it several times.

[HotBlack]

Billsworld •wrote• Hi Joseph, It sounds like you are on your own in that gym as far as coaching goes. I would look over the "Gym coach wanted" thread and make sure you are doing your squats and deadlifts correctly. Looking at a video of someone doing a lift and duplicating it is not always an easy link. For now ,your form in those lifts will be more important than any routine .

This post - and the thread it refers to - also contains valuable information and wisdom.

[Joseph]

sbrown •wrote• Do you want to be a kilo rider or just ride a kilo?

That is a very good question. Posed in such a straightforward manner, it has made me think about it in a new way.

And the answer is... I don't know. Yet.

Last year was a breakout year for me on the road. I went from being dropped in every single race like all previous years, to hanging with the front group over tough hills and making critical final selections. I particularly became known by those that matter as a dangerous (for all the right reasons) guy in a bunch sprint. I didn't have any notable results, but the key guys saw I was a player and that it was just circumstance that kept me off the podium.

So I had been looking to expand on that next year, and actually get some results.

Here in Norway there are no categories, and all races have hills. At 90+ kg this means I have at best very limited chances to make a mark. I also have a pretty low LT (~340W) considering how much training I've done.

But, I also learned once I bought a powermeter last year that I probably have potential to be a pretty good kilo rider if I can pull it all together. I tried a few kilos as the season was winding down and fell in love.

I have already about 12 road races scheduled for next season (I have ditched all the 24H races and crazy endurance stuff I used to do) and none of them are longer than 100 km, so no big endurance needed. I have targeted 2 of them for wins.

So looking at that, it sounds like I just want to ride a kilo, not be a kilo rider.

BUT, that could all change if I see that I really do have kilo potential. If over the winter I build enough strength, and get enough practice at the track to make an honest stab come spring at a kilo that doesn't require me to make excuses about one thing or another, and it is pretty fast, I will probably change my priorities.

Ideally I'd be a kilo rider who is strong enough endurance-wise to win the occasional short road race. I can have my cake and eat it too, right?

Joseph

PS: Who knows, maybe I'm really a match-sprinter!

[Joseph]

Billsworld •wrote• It sounds like you are on your own in that gym as far as coaching goes.

Today when I walked into the gym I thought to myself that maybe I spoke too soon about having the weights to myself. There were 5 HUGE guys there. I guessed they were Lithuanian guest-workers by the beat-up van in the parking lot.

Rather than feel like an idiot in front of them, I asked if they could help we with my form on squats and deadlifts. They were quite nice (Lithuanians are bottom-rung here, so I don't think many people strike up conversation with them unless they need their septic tank dug out or something). And after a minute or so, I explained I was into cycling and I wanted my legs to be as strong as Simona Krupeckaite's. This REALLY appealed to their national pride, and they were very pleased that I knew who she is. I had no idea if they would know who she was, but they most certainly did.

Anyway, they showed me all manner of exercises, and literally had a very "hands-on" approach to showing me what I was doing wrong, and correcting my position and form. I think I got some very good advice and guidance. And if these guys' physiques are anything to go by, they know what they are talking about.

A great session. Only one of them could speak a bit of English, but with their hands-on approach and lots of gestures and laughing, we got on great. I'm going to be sore though...

Joseph

[RAM]

I gather you are a bit new to all of this - but I think what Hotblack and some of the other guys are saying makes some sense. You are talking about training specifically for both hilly road races and the kilo, which are kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of cycling abilities and skillsets.

IMHO, you should probably take the approach that you are training for endurance track - road sprint - and get as lean and powerful as you can. Then, after another season of racing the full spectrum of events, you may get a better sense of where your strengths lie - and may want to commit wholeheartedly to training a specialty.

I am only saying this because the stuff that you will want to do to be a great kilo rider - and you can ask HB - will likely not help your road racing game much. It actually would probably hurt your road performance.

I race road and track as a masters rider. When I focus heavily on road, the track racing suffers - and vice-versa. I have never been great at either, but decent - and I find that it is pretty tough to do great at both - at the same time.

[Allan_L]

Hey why are you down talking us lithuanians ya big bully? heh

[Joseph]

Down-talking? I was giving those guys the respect they deserve, which they unfortunately are not used to getting around here. Anyway I would have to be a complete moron to to say anything bad about my new buddies. These guys were HUGE!

Joseph

[Bleve]

Joseph,
I suggest you get a copy of Rippetoe's 'starting strength' and read it. Actually go and buy the damn book. Before you get involved in anything silly, get a decent strength base.

BTW, for anyone curious, I met Norseman last week, the author of the famous post - he got moved out of the Oz sprint squad when Barras was booted after Beijing. We discussed his post here, he's sick of people showing it to him and saying 'hey, have you read this'? 'uh yeah, he wrote it ...'

He (Norseman) used 1 leg press mainly as a ballistic exercise, he uses a lot of low back squats and deadlifts, very similar to Rip's stuff. He also does a lot of one leg squats and one leg power cleans once the riders have built a decent strength base. By comparison, John Beasley's Malaysian squad uses deadlifts and squats more and don't do much or any one leg stuff. They both get excellent results, it's fair to say and Norseman agrees that there's more than one way to skin the cat. Josiah Ng is around 65kg at his heaviest and he's no slouch, the Malay squad does 3 days a week in the gym, 3 days on the track, 2 days out doing recovery rides (~1hr, strictly E1 pace or below). Leg press on its own is a bad thing. The body doesn't work legs in isolation, they have to work with the upper body and torso. Track bikes aren't recumbents and training like they are will most likely not be the best way to get strong on the bike.