FixedGearFever Forums-viewtopic-weights before sprints

Chainsnapper · Cat 3 Joined: Aug 01, 2004 Posts: 227

kirk •wrote•

Chainsnapper •wrote•
I think getting a group of riders together to workout in a team effort is a great idea, and would likely produce the best results. I wish I had that oppurtunity now. I can't even get a few roadies around here to sprint with me.

Uhhh, because road racing is an aerobic sport??

Regards,

Kirk Albers

So you're telling me that roadies never do any sprint training?
I bet Mark does some sprints. Afterall he did fly up the road in the sprint at marblehead '04 and left you and Myerson in the dust. (as well as me, so I am not trying to knock anyone)

Besides, sprinting is fun!

streetstar · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject:

Roadies should practice sprints more -- some races actually end with one ! Idea

"Napolean - don't be jealous that i've been home all day chatting online with babes"

kirk · Cat 2 Joined: Nov 21, 2003 Posts: 464

streetstar •wrote• Roadies should practice sprints more -- some races actually end with one ! Idea

I would suggest to reread my above comment. You have to get to the finish first grasshopper........

Regards,

Kirk Albers

KiwiCoach · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject:

jb1566 •wrote• Hamish - you are the guy who posted awhile back that weight training was a waste of time, right? If so, what made you change your mind (please take this as a true question - not trying to be confrontational!).

Still at two minds over the benefits of weight training. I worked as a personal trainer for four years and did a lot of weights with endurance athletes and it appeared to make a positive difference. But then just as many riders don't do weights and go quite well.

I now have access to a lot more physiological testing than in the past so might be able to compare apples with apples whn looking at riders who do and don't use weights.

•Quote• But, you have to realize some history on Chainsnapper....one, he posted awhile back about some ridiculously high power outputs......power outputs that basically would have had him smoking the cat V and cat IV T-Town field........but I dont think he ever came......second, he's not a sprinter, he's a road racer....so he says.......

Still, we might get a good discussion going and all find something new.

•Quote• I guess, the point I want to make by this post is that JoeA's comments need to be taken in context.......I'd wager chainsnapper would be doing a million times better in a match sprint if he had just gone to T-Town on Saturday all summer rather then waste time in the gym.

Lets debate it. I have a friend who does weights all year for sprinting. Last time I rode him in a match sprint (im a roadie type) I beat him easily.

•Quote• you should see how much people pay per hour for a personal trainer........

Ummm, no comment.

Hamish Ferguson

Scott · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject:

In general, I think US track racers would race better if they raced their bikes more.

Example: Brad Huff. Races just about anything he can... seems to be improving.

-fgf

panch0 · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject:

Funny how things work...

When I ran track for UTEP in the 80's (ran track for 13 years... 400m) I was pretty much on a year round weightlifting program. Focusing on repetitions in the autum/winter (typical 3x20-135 lbs) and heavy loads during the early season (5x5-405lbs) and cutting the weights for peaking meets with concentration on plyometrics and cleans [no jerk].

[BTW, plyometrics were also year round but they were managed in different loads throughout the season. My training was not out of the University but mostly it was given to me by my Cuban coach who had done his masters in the USSR at the National Sports Institute in Kiev. So in a sense I have gotten under my belt some of the good ol' Soviet training.]

Anyway, weights after sprinting workouts are standard in track and field and yes... they are as heavy as you can lift them both for squat and for cleans. When I ran track I really needed to squat heavy to keep my speed up but now that I sprint on the velodrome, squatting heavy seems to slow me down quite a bit.

After experimenting a lot, since my track weightlifting experience did not help me much for my cycling sprinting, I have found that I sprint better when I stick to a squating program of 3x8-185 lbs once a week!! Go figure!! Certainly that is a program that I can keep up year round!

Chainsnapper... I don't think anybody is really trying to "keep" training secrets from anybody... I think everyone has their own training regimen and they have found that what works for someone may not work for another rider.

Kiwi Coach... I used to train with Matt Barber (track and field) down under... do you know this fellow? He is originally from Perth in Western Australia.

panch0 in Miami

KiwiCoach · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject:

Matt Barber, no sorry don't know him.

Hamish Ferguson in not so sunny Christchurch

panch0 · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject:

I forgot the main topic...

I remember having tried squats before sprinting a couple of times with varying results. Mostly in non Olympic years.

The objective in this type of training is to teach and aid the white fibers in the specific muscles to recruit during sprinting.

If you are trying this out, the lifting should be kept heavy and in low numbers while assuring yourself that no fatigue will set in the muscle. So make sure you are taking plenty of recovery time if you are already in-season.

In many instances you will be able to go faster because you have recruited more muscle fibers for that effort. However, as soon as fatigue sets in from the combination of weights and sprinting... you will unravel very quickly. And that is the trick with this training method precisely: you will reach fatigue sooner than later; consequently, it is a highly unreliable method to count on for the in-season racing.

Although strength for sprinters is imperative, I think it is only a small element in the whole equation. IMHO there is no better way to recruit white muscle fibers for sprinting than the sprinting act itself. I know a rider who can squat 600-700 lbs but seldom sprints on his bike... so every time he does a 200tt he clocks 11.9-12.0!! You would have thought with that squat he would turn a 10.7 but nope.

panch0

JVance · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject:

panch0 •wrote• I know a rider who can squat 600-700 lbs but seldom sprints on his bike... so every time he does a 200tt he clocks 11.9-12.0!! You would have thought with that squat he would turn a 10.7 but nope.

panch0

This is a great example to illustrate that strength and power are different, both physically and physiologically Wink

zipp909 · Cat 2 Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 349

yep, I agree with that. It might work well in training but do it too much leading up to big events and your legs might take a time out. Lay off the weight routine and let your legs fully recover and generate all the power for the big event. (my personal experience, I've heard pro's, coaches say diff)

Chainsnapper · Cat 3 Joined: Aug 01, 2004 Posts: 227

jb1566 •wrote• Hamish - you are the guy who posted awhile back that weight training was a waste of time, right? If so, what made you change your mind (please take this as a true question - not trying to be confrontational!).

But, you have to realize some history on Chainsnapper....one, he posted awhile back about some ridiculously high power outputs......power outputs that basically would have had him smoking the cat V and cat IV T-Town field........but I dont think he ever came......second, he's not a sprinter, he's a road racer....so he says.......

I'd wager chainsnapper doesnt look like this (course I dont either): http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/olympics04/index.php?id=kilo/oly2004-cycling-track-ho-36

I guess, the point I want to make by this post is that JoeA's comments need to be taken in context.......I'd wager chainsnapper would be doing a million times better in a match sprint if he had just gone to T-Town on Saturday all summer rather then waste time in the gym.

And finally, chainsnapper, what you pay for with a coach is not secrets per say, but a consistent (hopefully anyways) strategy.....for me at least, mixing and matching different stuff I read here and on the internet doesnt seem to work, its the whole program together that works......you should see how much people pay per hour for a personal trainer........

Whipper-snapper, I mean chainsnapper, come on out to the D20 championships and show us what ya got in dem legs........ Cool

I must have missed your post earlier.

In case you haven't visited the "chain" thread in the beginners forum, there is a lot more about me in there. Everything I say is true, I am not here to blow smoke up your a$$. I am here to learn as much as I can from you more experienced trackies.

Right now, I am more a sprinter than a road racer. I kind of gave up road racing after upgrading to 2 this spring. I just rather sprint, it's a lot more fun.
I suppose I still look like a typical roadie, at 6'1 187lbs.

What is this D20 race? I am now motivated enough (after all these discussions) to get my butt to a track if there is still any racing going on at this time.

Chainsnapper · Cat 3 Joined: Aug 01, 2004 Posts: 227

I will agree that I do reach fatigue earlier in my sprint workouts if I do weights before the ride. But those first sprints are just amazing.

Chainsnapper · Cat 3 Joined: Aug 01, 2004 Posts: 227

jb1566 •wrote•
Whipper-snapper, I mean chainsnapper, come on out to the D20 championships and show us what ya got in dem legs........ Cool

After some time searching, I found that race, the MABRA championships.

It looks like I will be only able to ride the kilo, no sprints, since I am not a member of there club and live in CT.
The good part is that I will be able to ride my road bike.

kilo it is. now I need to train for it! about 2 weeks to go

KiwiCoach · Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:17 am Post subject:

Chainsnapper, how long do you rest in between sprint efforts?

Hamish Ferguson

clogz · Cat 6 Joined: Aug 24, 2004 Posts: 24

KiwiCoach •wrote• A few sprinters have set up a training squad for sprinters here in Christchurch and are basing their training on the new Aussie methods (Bayley, Meares etc). Apparently a lot of very high intensity weights and sprinting, very little aerobic and no upper body work. Ask some questions here, I am keen to get some sprint discussions going and am sure others here are curious as well.
Hamish Ferguson

Please share some info about these methods, I'd really like to hear. Especially how do you mix aerobic training and high intensity weights + sprints? How to divide and spread these excersizes through the season? How about annual mileage versus sprint training time? What kind of mileage, stamina or tougher going?

Thanks in advance.